TREVOR YOUNG: 00:58

Thanks for joining us. My name's Trevor. And in today's episode, we're going to be looking about, focusing on thought leadership and building authority, but doing it in a way that creates impact and not just doing it for the sake of ego. Now building a thought leadership positioning in the marketplace can be a real bonus for your business or your brand, whether you're running a personal brand based business or, you know, you run a company or an organization and you employ staff, and you still want to be upfront as the leader and, you know, contributing over and above your your products and services, so to speak, and to start changing the way people, your prospective clients and customers and and those who influence them, and start getting people to think differently about a topic or issue. Now this, interview is with a a PR agency owner called Rusty Shelton.

TREVOR YOUNG: 02:00

And Rusty is, from the US and he's also, a best selling author. And we're going to be talking about his book, The Authority Advantage. And, it's got a second part to it, The Authority Advantage, Building Thought Leadership focused on impact, not ego. And this, was originally, published on my personal branding podcast called Reputation Revolution. If you haven't checked out Reputation Revolution, there's over 280 episodes for you to check out and it's more around personal branding and and, you know, building your brand and monetizing your brand, that side of things.

TREVOR YOUNG: 02:39

But a lot to do with personal branding is PR. Hence, it is on this, podcast. So I cherry pick every now and then, some interviews that I've done in the past and dig them up out of the vault and, for your listening pleasure. So, without further ado, here is my interview with Rusty Shelton, author and entrepreneur. Welcome to the show, Rusty, all the way from Texas.

Rusty Shelton: 03:06

Thank you again for having me, Trevor. I I really appreciate it.

TREVOR YOUNG: 03:09

You've written a well, you've cowritten a a a new book, called The Authority Advantage, but also you you've got a day gig as, the the CEO and founder of Zilker Media. Why don't you walk us through, thumbnail sketch on on Zilker Media and then so people can get a bit of context of who you are and what you do, and then we'll move into the into the the book side of things because there's a lot to unpack.

Rusty Shelton: 03:32

Zilker Media is actually our second agency. So the first agency was an agency called Shelton Interactive. We founded back in 2010, got acquired in 2016. And that first agency was really all about book marketing. So we launched some of the biggest books in the world.

Rusty Shelton: 03:47

The one thing worked with Tom Rath and Gary Keller and many others and, learned a ton about how to build thought leadership. The challenge with that first agency, Trevor, is you know, when you're launching books, you've got about a 6 month window to launch the book. And even when the campaign goes great, you know, at the end of it, it's, hey, Rusty. You guys are awesome. Let me call you in 3 years when my next book comes out.

Rusty Shelton: 04:08

And so, again, that one got acquired by a strategic, buyer back in 2016, that I still do a lot of work with today. But the new agency, the idea was, let's take everything that we learned in building thought leadership for authors, and let's apply it to companies, to institutions who right now, you know, as you know, are trusted less than they've ever been trusted before. And so this idea of leading as a thought leader with something to teach versus a company with something to sell is really one that's working very well for them. So that's the work that we do now at Zilker.

TREVOR YOUNG: 04:42

Excellent. And, what's what's some of the names you've been working with, you know, particularly the authors, whether it's Silker or Pryor, some of the names people would know?

Rusty Shelton: 04:52

Yes. This this book behind me, The One Thing, Gary Keller's cofounder of Keller Williams Realty, and Jay Papazan are the coauthors of of that book. John Acuff, Sally Hogshead, you know, 35 New York Times, Wall Street Journal bestsellers there. Chicken Soup for the Soul is another, you know, big global brand that I know a lot of your local listeners will will know. So, it it the book industry to me is just something I'm I've always been passionate about.

Rusty Shelton: 05:18

I know you've written a couple of books as well. And just the ability to to teach at scale is so valuable in that format. And and, again, with kind of the new agency, we're still doing, like, 30% of our client base. We're still authors, speakers, individual thought leaders. But, again, where we're seeing the biggest impact, from this idea of building authority is helping business owners, CEOs, leaders to punch above their weight class in terms of visibility and trust by, again, kind of shifting the market perception from operator with something to sell to instead, you know, mission driven thought leader authority with something to teach.

TREVOR YOUNG: 05:55

Yeah. I like that. And, we'll we'll unpack that because there's a a number of shifts that I know you wrote about in the book. And and I guess the other part is, just walk us a bit through the book. You're a co author of it, The Authority Advantage.

TREVOR YOUNG: 06:08

Why did you write the book, and how long did it take to what was the gestation period? I'm always interested in authors how long it it took them to to get it onto the virtual shelves.

Rusty Shelton: 06:18

Well, it just it actually just got here to the office. So I'm holding a copy of it here. But, title of it is The Authority Advantage, Building Thought Leadership Focused on Impact, Not Ego. So this book you see over my left shoulder here was our was our last book, also co written with Adam, called Authority Marketing. And the focus of that book was, you know, really, how do you go about meaningfully building what I think a lot of leaders see as just kind of opaque and overwhelming, which is thought leadership.

Rusty Shelton: 06:46

A lot of people talk about it. Very few people know kinda how to go about building it. So that that book really zeroed in on that. What we found with that book, Trevor, was for a lot of leaders, the word marketing, when when they saw that, you know, they were kinda throwing it over the fence to their marketing team or their PR folks as opposed to, you really kind of internalizing what they needed to focus on, which is starting to get a bit more visible themselves. And so this book, the new one, which comes out mid May, The Authority Advantage, really the focus there is we're kind of grabbing leaders by the shoulders with this one and saying, you know, hey, The work you used to do as a leader, kind of what you may think of of servant leadership, which typically, up to this point for many leaders has been, let me put my head down behind the scenes and over deliver for team members, over deliver for clients and partners, which, by the way, you gotta continue to do.

Rusty Shelton: 07:38

But the shift that's happened now is that if that's all you're doing behind the scenes, you you you're really limiting the impact and limiting the value of what you do as a leader because the only people that can benefit from that are those that happen to directly interact with you. And so kind of the the, cause that we're trying to champion with this new book for well meaning, really high quality leaders is if you're gonna punch above your weight class, if you're gonna really deliver value for your company, you've gotta come out alongside the corporate brand or the institutional brand. Not in front of it, but out alongside, it really is an on ramp back to the business. And so what we're what we're really trying to do with this book is show leaders, number 1, why it's crucial to do it right now because we know trust in those institutions is at an all time low. And then number 2, really pragmatically, how do you go doing it in an authentic mission driven way?

TREVOR YOUNG: 08:33

And and it's for kind of anyone who's, wanting to cover out out a thought leadership positioning or an expert, positioning as well, in the marketplace and, the the tools and all the things. You know, if you're in a smaller company, it's probably a little bit easier, but you still gotta make the effort to do it. And, you know, you may not have the resources of a big company, but all this is doable. Just quickly before we get into it, because I'm very, keen to unpack the the the 3 big shifts to build a bit of context around this. But, in terms of, you know, let's call it for what it is, we're we're using the phrases personal branding and thought leadership, 2 phrases that I use a lot, and, 2 phrases that have, over the period of time, have lost a bit of meaning, in the in the marketplace.

TREVOR YOUNG: 09:19

And people make assumptions about personal branding and thought leadership and and and the like. Well, how do you deal with people that say, oh, you know, personal branding, I don't, you know, I don't wanna craft a false persona of myself or, you know, thought leader thought leadership, when when, leaders talk about that. There there are assumptions around what it means and means different things to different people. How do you set people straight?

Rusty Shelton: 09:45

Yeah. Well, a couple of things there, Trevor. Number 1, I think the reaction that a lot of leaders have to this phrase, personal branding or or building authority or thought leadership, you know, typically is is some version of, you know, throwing up a little bit in their mouth. Right? It's it's a recoil.

Rusty Shelton: 10:03

And in many cases, when I'm giving a speech, I could see a recoil from the audience just in the mention of the phrase. Yeah. And by the way, I understand it. And the reason why, Trevor, is for for most leaders or practitioners, you know, our minds immediately go to people that are doing this the wrong way. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 10:19

People that are building ego driven, hey, look at me kind of brands. And so to get this out of the way at the start for your viewers, for your listeners, when we talk about this idea of building an authority advantage, building thought leadership, we are not interested in building a, hey. Look how smart you are kind of brand or something that strokes your ego. It's actually completely the opposite. It's it's really a focus on how could you be the messenger, not the message.

Rusty Shelton: 10:43

So in other words, what we know again, Gallup put out a study last year. Trust in institutions and businesses and nonprofits is at an all time low. If you have a message to communicate and you are leading with the quote, unquote corporate brand, you your audience is recoiling from that. They are more skeptical than they've ever been of it before. And so the reason for a leader to to kinda come out alongside the corporate brand is because the speed to trust for you as an individual, if you have built an authentic mission driven brand, is dramatically quicker than it is for the business.

Rusty Shelton: 11:19

And so, Trevor, what I find for a lot of those leaders, the the light bulb, if you will, on this is, okay, this is not really about building a, hey, look how smart Trevor is kind of brand. This is about communicating a message and making an impact that we're gonna go a lot further, a lot quicker, a lot cheaper if the leader is willing to be the messenger, again, not the message.

TREVOR YOUNG: 11:44

Yeah. I like that, Nom. And and when well well, let's jump use that as a jumping off point to shift number 1. So from corporate branding to authority branding. So, basically, you you almost just covered it there, really, is that, you know, there's a lack of trust, in businesses and and corporate names, brand names, business names, and, the that if the leader is out there upfront or leaders and they're upfront and they're, you know, visible and human and, you know, adding value and all of that sort of things, then they're gonna be a lot more trusted.

TREVOR YOUNG: 12:19

And then the halo effect goes back onto the, onto the business brand, not the other way around.

Rusty Shelton: 12:25

Yeah. That's exactly right. And and the way I like to the analogy I like to use for this is the business is the interstate or or the highway. Right? We want as many of the right customers, the right partners, the right team members as we can get on that highway.

Rusty Shelton: 12:38

I want the leader to be the on ramp to to the highway. And so we've got today, Trevor and, again, especially for your listeners and your viewers that are small, medium sized businesses, they're competing in the industries where, you know, they're going head to head against corporate brands that have been around longer, that have much bigger marketing budgets. If you think about that, if you're trying to go logo versus logo, and you're a small, medium sized business, and you're going head to head against a much bigger company that's been around longer it's a it's a fight you're not gonna win. The other thing that we know, again, based on the statistics is it takes a lot longer, a lot more money, a lot more time to build rapport and trust when you lead with the company. And so that's really the shift that we're seeing right now is all of us as consumers, when we are seeking information, we're going to trust it in a quicker way when it's coming from an individual that we view as authentic.

Rusty Shelton: 13:34

And and I think that's the big thing also, Trevor, is just to for for your listeners to think about is right now, whether they like it or not, there's a brand in place for every single one of them. We we define branding in the book as creating an image in the minds of your audience. And and whether you like it or not, your audience is getting an image of you before they walk in the room, right, for that appointment Yeah. Before they decide to take that interview. And so the question I would ask the the people listening to this is, alright.

Rusty Shelton: 14:06

If that image is is being created whether you like it or not, don't you wanna, number 1, own it? Right? And number 2, just be intentional about what that image is. And so I think that's a really important point for a lot of leaders is whether you like it or not, there is an image being created for you. Do you want it to be a commoditized image of just another operator with something to sell?

Rusty Shelton: 14:30

Or do you want it to be more congruent with who you actually are, which is that mission driven thought leader, that person that wants to make an impact?

TREVOR YOUNG: 14:38

So you you use examples in the book, which I always love examples in the book, and I love giving examples on on the show just to bring things to life. Walk us through, doctor Andy Simon. She was the the CEO of Simon Associates, Management Consultants, and she wasn't a believer in the start and is now.

Rusty Shelton: 15:00

Yeah. Doctor Simon, I think, is a really good example of this. In a very competitive industry, right, there's a lot of people competing for attention in the management consulting space. And what she recognized early on is that, most of those companies were being positioned exactly the same way. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 15:18

It was a corporate brand. It was stock photos on the website. It was the same old jargon, and she knew that it's gonna be really difficult for her to stand out if she approached it that way. So she got over that initial recoil that you talk about, and, Patty Brennan, who's another example that we gave in the book, which is one of the most successful, female owned wealth managers here in the United States, similar reaction. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 15:41

Which is an initial recoil. I don't wanna build a brand about me. And, again, as we just talked about, building authority advantage is not about building a brand about you. It's you being willing to be the messenger, not the message. Message.

Rusty Shelton: 15:55

And so doctor Simon, through writing a book, through doing more media, through creating a brand, recognized that she can really scale her teaching and scale her time in a way that allowed her to really differentiate from all the others in her space. So whether it is, you know, Patty Brannen Patty Brennan in the wealth management space, doctor Simon in the management consulting space, The the way that you kind of pull yourself out of that stack commoditization is, you know, you're willing to kind of lean into to more of the teaching and and content side versus, again, the the corporate brand.

TREVOR YOUNG: 16:35

Number 2 is from corporate media to micromedia, one of my favorite topics. Let's walk through that. The big shift. Big, big shift.

Rusty Shelton: 16:43

I love seeing this just going through your content. I know it's been a big focus for for at least one of your books. And that is, you know, all of us as the media consuming public, we have shifted our attention away from large generic media that we increasingly see as biased or filtered. But but more importantly, Trevor, that has not given us a great return on our investment of time because of how over generalized it is. And we're redeploying that attention to what we call micromedia.

Rusty Shelton: 17:10

Right? Individual podcasts, individual newsletters, individual YouTube channels that are giving us exactly what we're looking for. So, you know, that shift and, again, trust being the other big reason for it is is such a huge opportunity to leaders that are willing to dive in. And I know for a lot of members of your audience, they they may be sitting there thinking, okay. Well, I missed the boat.

Rusty Shelton: 17:36

Right? I'm, I'm I'm 10 years too late to dive in on a podcast, or I'm 5 years too late to actually ramp up on YouTube or LinkedIn. And and and what I often tell leaders is you can make up a lot of ground really quickly if you approach it the right way. And so Yep. Don't don't let this feeling of, hey.

Rusty Shelton: 17:55

I missed the boat keep you from jumping in.

TREVOR YOUNG: 17:58

Yeah. And and the opportunities with micromedia today is, you know, you can really hone in on a particular topic really, you know, deeply that people might not be they certainly wouldn't probably get in the mainstream media, and and then be able to attract the right people to your brand. It's not about attracting everyone to that, that channel or that podcast or whatever. It's about attracting the right people who who, aligned with your values and, you know, maybe what they want a contrarian view, but they, you know, they like you. They and they begin to trust over a period of time.

Rusty Shelton: 18:34

Yeah. That's exactly right. I mean, it's it's really about reaching your niche and and doing it in an effective way over time. And and Trevor, the other thing I should mention is what we find works really well on the micro media side. So so anytime as a leader that you're creating content, whether it's a podcast, a book, newsletter, and beyond, I find a lot of leaders when they go down this road, you know, the initial thought is, alright.

Rusty Shelton: 18:59

I gotta I gotta play this formal thought leader. I gotta put the suit and tie on, and I've gotta be you know, what I've got in my head, my audience is looking for as a thought leader. And and my encouragement to leaders is actually the opposite is what works. We want you to be more of yourself. We want you to lean into your personality, your interests, your quirks, whatever that niche might be.

Rusty Shelton: 19:23

And the reason why, Trevor, is because we look at chat g p t coming on online. We look at just the amount of just buckets and buckets and buckets of competitive content in whatever your top area is. The only reason for me to follow you versus all the other people is because I identify with you. I I you made me laugh. Your personality is something that pulls me in, and I trust you more as a result of you being willing to be vulnerable and being willing to be honest and kinda take me behind the scenes.

Rusty Shelton: 19:54

And so I hope for a lot of people that's that's empowering. And what I find for a lot of leaders is it is kind of empowering where it's like, okay. What actually is gonna work here is not me trying to be something I'm not. It's actually me leaning more into what makes me different.

TREVOR YOUNG: 20:09

Yeah. And that that affinity, I don't think it can ever be underplayed. You know, like, it's to build that affinity over time of people who want to hear from you. They wanna read your stuff. You know?

TREVOR YOUNG: 20:19

They're gonna follow you. That's that that can't be undersold.

Rusty Shelton: 20:25

It can't be undersold at all. I mean, the leverage that it that it provides wherever you go in the future, whatever you might do in the future. But but also, what I find is just like the impact that you can have. And for a lot of leaders, they start hearing from people halfway around the world. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 20:43

So you might hear from somebody here in Austin, or I might hear from somebody in Australia that, you know, this has sent them off into a different direction that that has resulted in a ton of wins for them, and you didn't have a reset person otherwise. And so Yep. I I think that's the that's the other part that for leaders, it's it it just is the fuel. Once they get over that kind of first hump and they start to get some of that feedback, it becomes, you know, really a no brainer from there.

TREVOR YOUNG: 21:09

And I'll add that it's you're not gonna get it right straight away. I mean, you're not going to probably find your voice if you're going out into a podcast or doing videos or even writing. It's gonna take time to to hone your voice and to to bring that out, and it it will always be evolving. So don't wait to get it to get it perfect because nothing will ever nothing will ever happen. And the the third shift is from selling to buying.

TREVOR YOUNG: 21:36

This is a this is a big one I feel.

Rusty Shelton: 21:38

Oh, man. It's huge. It's huge. And and this tippy is one of the biggest things you get when you build authority. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 21:43

When you build that third party credibility is you you start to become more of a magnet for potential customers who are coming to you to learn more about working with you. Nobody wants to be sold to. Right? And and and we're in an environment right now where people that are selling to us or that we perceive as selling to us, we're out. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 22:03

We're we're we're we're not interested. And so what what I like on the authority side is, you know, just let's let's go back to the Patty Brennan example, which we opened the book with. Patty is somebody who, you know, regularly featured on CNBC, speaks to Forbes, has a big podcast that she's built. And, you know, if I've just sold my business, and I'm looking at 5 different wealth advisors, right, and I Google all 5 of their names because I've gotten referred to each one of them.

TREVOR YOUNG: 22:29

Yep.

Rusty Shelton: 22:30

4 of those 5 people that I Google, I'm gonna get a suit and tie picture, you know, in front of a a bookcase of books and and a corporate logo. Right? And and, by the way, I'm in the position of leverage with each of those 4 people. I'm interviewing them. When I Google Patty's name, I get to her website.

Rusty Shelton: 22:46

I've got a hero shot of her up on stage. We've got a Forbes logo right behind her on stage. Well, I don't know, Patty. I do have an image in my mind for somebody that's on that stage next to that logo. I'm feeling lucky to get an appointment with Patty.

Rusty Shelton: 23:01

And and, sure, I'll wait 2 months to get in the room with her. And so what happens there is those other 4 people again, I'm interviewing them. They're selling to me. With Patty, I'm going in trust has been built before I get in the room. And it's not because Patty said, hey.

Rusty Shelton: 23:18

Look how smart I am. Hey. Look how successful I am. It's because the visuals said what we didn't want her to say about herself, which is this is somebody you can trust. This is a teacher.

Rusty Shelton: 23:30

This is somebody who has built third party credibility. And so I'm going right to, alright, tell me what I should do because I see you as the authority versus the operator.

TREVOR YOUNG: 23:41

And you call that pre engagement?

Rusty Shelton: 23:43

Yes. Pre engagement. So yeah. Exactly. So we, you know, define branding in the book as creating an image in the minds of your audience.

Rusty Shelton: 23:51

Right? So super simple definition. Create an image in the minds of your audience. There are 2 phases to doing that today. So phase 1 is is what what you just mentioned there, pre engagement.

Rusty Shelton: 24:02

This is before I get in the room with you, before I work with you, before I take that job, before I buy the book and read it. And so in phase 1, because the image you create in my mind is not created as a result of over delivering on my expectations or or, you know, giving a great speech or writing a great book. It's created page 1 of Google. You know, from there, if we're fortunate, it's then created on your website or your LinkedIn profile. And that initial image, Trevor, as as you know, is either congruent, right, with what I'm gonna get once I cross over and buy or take that meeting.

Rusty Shelton: 24:37

Or it's an image that's either, you know, nonexistent because I can't find you even though I've been referred to. I know your name, and I still can't find you. Or if I can find you, you know, maybe it doesn't really differentiate you from all the other options that I have. So we go as deep as is helpful on that side. And then phase 2, post engagement is, you know, this is once we work together, once I buy that product or once I decide to invest with Patty or once I bring Trevor in to give a speech, you know, in the image that's in my mind there, of course, is dependent on did you over deliver or under deliver.

Rusty Shelton: 25:11

And what I find for a lot of leaders, probably a lot of people listening to this podcast, they're over delivering consistently in phase 2. Right? If if somebody makes it to phase 2 with them, you get a happy customer driving positive word-of-mouth. Where I find a lot of people are missing opportunity is they may say, alright. Our our firm is entirely built on referrals, and that's because they're over delivering in phase 2, which again is table stakes.

Rusty Shelton: 25:37

You have to do that, obviously. Yep. But for a lot of those people, they're getting a ton of referrals that they're never hearing from. Because those people getting referred to them either can't find them, or what they're finding in phase 1, you know, is kinda making them question whether or not that company is a fit.

TREVOR YOUNG: 25:55

Yeah. I I always, use the example of, you know, coming from a PR background that, things like your blog and your podcast and everything, people might not necessarily read it, you know, all the time or listen to you or whatever, but it serves as a point of validation. So you're exactly right in terms of, you know, people who've been referred to you. They check you out. What will they find?

TREVOR YOUNG: 26:19

Will it do the professional you justice? They dig a bit deeper. They they look at your blog or your socials or whatever it is and and form a picture. But if you you know, often that is validation on top of discovery. And we all talk about discovery and SEO and all of that sort of stuff.

TREVOR YOUNG: 26:36

More leads, more sales, all of that, but the validation plays in a massive a massive role in in everything.

Rusty Shelton: 26:42

It it does. And and you hit on what I think is is perhaps the lowest hanging fruit for people when they start to build authority or build a brand is they empower the people that already know and love them to refer them more. In other words, even if I know you're the best accountant in the world, I may not be as comfortable referring you if I know my friend is gonna Google your name and find a website, you know, your nephew built 18 years ago that that looks like you're out of business or, you know, whatever it might be. And so getting your brand right, the quickest impact is the people that know and love you are gonna refer you more. And by the way, the people that are getting referred to you are actually gonna raise their hand for that appointment because you have built trust before they get in the room.

Rusty Shelton: 27:31

And so I think that side of it is I mean, this one of the biggest parts of writing a book is you empower people with extra validation to drive business your way or to put you on the right stages. And so, I I I think that's a really important piece because to your point earlier, it's really hard to reach people that have never heard of you before, and it takes time to do that. And so the quickest impact of this is, again, empowering people that know and love you to talk about what you're doing more.

TREVOR YOUNG: 28:00

Yeah. Alright. Well, let's get, to 10 tax of the of the, getting gaining the authority advantage. So you have what you call the the master authority plan, 3, 3 cornerstones of that?

Rusty Shelton: 28:15

Yeah. And I think for for a lot of your listeners, really, the starting point of that master authority plan is really thinking about discoverability and making sure that, you know, they've got kind of the foundation of a brand that number 1, they can own search for, but number 2, they're creating that image. So this is tactical, but, Trevor, I think for a lot of members of your audience, it's gonna be really, really important. So if I am referred to you let me put myself in the in the shoes of somebody that's just been referred to your business. The question I want you to ask yourself, if I go looking for you by name right now, if I Google your name, number 1, can you be found?

Rusty Shelton: 28:51

And if you can't be found, there are one of 2 reasons why. Either you just intentionally been a ghost online, and if so, alright, Trevor and I are gonna try to work you past that today. The much more common reason I can't find you is because you have a brand name that is exceedingly difficult for you to own. So David Beerman Scott, Trevor, who wrote the forward for our book, one of my favorite, you know, marketing and p authors through the years, his name's David Scott.

TREVOR YOUNG: 29:19

It was for days.

Rusty Shelton: 29:20

Right. And what he recognized early in his career is that, you know, his name is a piece of digital real estate. And if his name is David Scott, he's standing on a piece of real estate with 100 of other David Scotts. It can be each of them trying to build the tallest tower in terms of visibility. It was just a name he was not gonna own search for.

Rusty Shelton: 29:38

And so when he added in that middle name, David Meerman Scott, you know, he walks across the street to a piece of real estate that's empty. And with the first brick, he owns search. And so one of the things I wanna encourage your audience members to think about, do you have a name that you can own search for? And if not, there's one of 2 reasons. Either it's, you know, really common name, like David Scott, or oftentimes, Trevor, I'll see somebody's got a super unique name, but, you know, they're they're unlucky enough to share it with an ax murderer from the seventies or an Olympian or whatever it might be.

Rusty Shelton: 30:13

Yeah. So think think about that. And for those people that are listening to this, if you don't own your name, first name, last namedot com, go grab it. Right? So and while you're there, if it's available, grab your kids' names, grab your grandkids' names.

Rusty Shelton: 30:27

That real estate's valuable today. It's only gonna get more valuable in the future. But, foundationally, Trevor and and I features on on kinda your opinion on this, but I always want people to have a name that they can own search for. And so if that means adding a middle initial or a middle name, it becomes foundationally important.

TREVOR YOUNG: 30:46

Yeah. I I agree with that. It's it's something that, if you can get the domain name, do it. I mean, there's a lot more options now. There's you know, I've got a dot me.

TREVOR YOUNG: 30:58

Mhmm. You know, there are lots of different options, to get that name now. And so at least get a domain name that's gonna work for you and and sit on it if you have to, and or start logging under it. You know? Like, put some content on it, but get it up there.

TREVOR YOUNG: 31:17

One of, one of my clients, Tristan White, in in in Australia is a you know, he's an author and a an entrepreneur and a, you know, leadership mentor. And, you know, there is another Tristan White, and he's he's an Olympian as it happens. And for a long time there, Tristan, the entrepreneur, couldn't be found. But he's got his domain name, and he wins. He wins the fight.

TREVOR YOUNG: 31:43

And, he's more active on social media whereas and and blogging and stuff whereas he wasn't, you know, in the earlier days. So I've seen I've seen it. I've seen it, you know, come to life in that. And and David the David Wibman Scott story is is a perfect one. And this is when you used the word before, and I'm I'm starting to use it a lot now as intentional.

TREVOR YOUNG: 32:01

When you're intentional about it, then you start seeing these little things that you can do that over a long period of time will make a heck of a difference.

Rusty Shelton: 32:13

Yes. No. That's that's exactly right. And consistency, I I think, is one of the real keys there. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 32:19

It's just being willing to to show some grit and show some determination early on until you get over that hump against your point earlier with with the time that it takes. So that step 1 is, do you have a name that you can own search for? Step 2 is, if if I do find that LinkedIn profile, if I do find that web site, you know, what image are you then creating in somebody's minds? And and so again, what we gotta remember in phase 1, when I land on that LinkedIn profile, again, I've been referred to you. There's no image in my mind yet for you.

Rusty Shelton: 32:53

And so when I land on that LinkedIn profile, if you're leading with, you know, either just kind of a normal suit and tie headshot, or or you're leading with the sunset picture over the Sydney Harbor, or or you're leading with, you know, a stock photo, you know, cool picture, but it does nothing to build trust with somebody that doesn't yet know you. And so we often talk about in phase 1, the single most important principle that exists in terms of building trust with somebody that doesn't yet know you is the principle of authority by association. So back to Patty Brennan. I mean, I know Patty. I do have an image of my mind for Forbes or for CNBC or or or for, you know, whatever that particular award is.

Rusty Shelton: 33:37

And so what happens is Patty's image is along for the ride with the image in my mind for that brand. Right? Trust Accelerator. And so what we often talk about, Trevor, is kinda walking a fine line back to this idea of not building an ego driven brand. Essentially, on one side of the coin, we want the visuals to say what we don't want a leader to say about themselves, which is, you know, top of her category thought leader, main stage speaker, wrote the book on the topic.

Rusty Shelton: 34:04

In other words, authority, somebody with something to teach. And then the flip side, the entirety of the content strategy from the blog to LinkedIn to the book to the podcast is all mission driven thought leadership. Right? If you never take another step with me, I'm gonna leave you better off as a result of having read this or listened to it. But as you know, that audience is not interested in listening or reading until they recognize that person's the person to teach them on that topic.

Rusty Shelton: 34:32

And so I I think it's really important for people listening to this and maybe saying, alright, Rusty. Yeah. Cool. If I had a Forbes picture, I'd be using it. I don't have that yet.

Rusty Shelton: 34:40

Or if I had a book, I'd be using that. There are ways to create images where it puts you in a setting that connotes authority. Like, worst case scenario, give me a picture of you with a podcast mic and headphones on in that LinkedIn header. I'm I may not, you know, know you. I'm seeing you now in a situation where you're teaching or connoting authority.

Rusty Shelton: 35:00

If it's a speaking picture, we see that work really well. And so I'm curious for for you, Trevor, as you're working with clients, we think about this idea of authority by association. So building trust with some of that third party credibility. Or do do you typically lead with a speaking picture or kind of an action shot that way? Or how do you how do you approach that?

TREVOR YOUNG: 35:20

Well, I've I've got, you know, the strip of logos like everyone, I I guess, on that regard. You know, I I I do less speaking now, a deliberate choice. But when I was going hardcore speaking, yes, I was up on stage with, you know, with the with the mic wrapped around and and that side of things. So I I I I did, used to to to lead with that as well. And and I think the I think it's a really important I like the phrase you used, trust accelerators, and it's that, they they they cognitive shortcuts, aren't they?

TREVOR YOUNG: 35:56

Daniel Kahneman, I think, maybe talked about cognitive shortcuts at one point. And and, you know, we haven't got much time. You know? Well, we're all time poor. We're flicking through things.

TREVOR YOUNG: 36:07

We need cognitive shortcuts to make decisions rightly or wrongly. And and and I I like where this conversation's going because it's right. Yes. We you know, a lot of people do the logo thing, and and some, I think, is it's quite disingenuous. We see it.

TREVOR YOUNG: 36:23

You know? People who are playing the game, you know, gaming the system, you know, in a in a way that's genuine and legitimate. So put put that put that thing aside. But, you know, even if you've, you can you might not be on Forbes, but, you know, there might be podcasts you've been on. And there might be, you know, that's where you can write your book even if it's a mini book just to get going.

TREVOR YOUNG: 36:53

If it's your own podcast, they they I'd call them trust accelerators. I'm gonna use that term now. Trust accelerators.

Rusty Shelton: 36:59

Good. Yeah. No. I mean, I I think that's the way to think about it for for leaders. Because, again, somebody is sizing you up from afar, whether you like it or not.

Rusty Shelton: 37:09

And if the trust accelerators are buried in your bio, and I gotta go 450 pages or excuse me, 450 words deep in that bio to find alright. Wow. She shared the stage with Renee Brown or Steve Forbes or whoever it might be. There's we're missing an opportunity to instantly create an image. If you have leaders that are listening to this, Trevor, who wanna do more speaking, that's one of the big goals that they have, which, you know, I find for a lot of leaders that wanna go down this road.

Rusty Shelton: 37:36

That's that's a big focus. Question I want you to ask yourself in phase 1 right now, is there a single thing from an image perspective that puts you in a setting that tells me you're a speaker? So I see a a lot of leaders that are, you know, wanting to do more speaking and and, you know, their bio picture is, again, it's it's the headshot. Yep. And there's nothing that's positioning him that way.

Rusty Shelton: 38:00

The biggest concern a meeting planner has is they're about to put you on the first stage you've ever been on or the biggest stage you've ever been on. And so, what I like most about speaking pictures, even if you don't wanna give a ton of speeches and and that's not, you know, the big focus for you, it positions you as somebody with something to teach rather than somebody with something to sell. And so Yep. My encouragement for a lot of people listening to this, they've been speaking. Maybe they've done over the last 5 or 10 years quite a few engagements.

Rusty Shelton: 38:31

My guess is there are pictures that that never made it through to you or that you could get access

TREVOR YOUNG: 38:36

to,

Rusty Shelton: 38:37

that needs to be your header picture on LinkedIn. That's the hero shot in your bio. That's the first thing I wanna see when I get to your website. It's not the stock photo of the smiling couple. It's not the corporate logo.

Rusty Shelton: 38:50

It's images that put you in a setting that position you as somebody with something to teach somebody I'm lucky to get an appointment with.

TREVOR YOUNG: 38:58

Just something that's come to mind, and I'm I'm a believer that if you wanna do speaking, at least have a speaking tab on your website at least and and and talk about it. And, you know, you'll build that up over time as you do speaking. So you've, it's not faking it till you make it. I mean, it's really already you're telling the world that you're ready to speak, and you're out there. You're doing it.

TREVOR YOUNG: 39:16

It doesn't matter whether it's a community meetup. You know, you can still get a photo with someone, you know, with, you know, people's heads with the back of people's heads watching you. But do what do you think about, if you're running a business and you got the business brand? Corporate might be a little bit, you know, on a on a bigger, organization. It might be a little bit different, but people having their own website.

TREVOR YOUNG: 39:41

So we said to be found, you know, and you've got your you know, you've got a business, Silca Media, but you've also got your own website, Rusty Shelton. So what what's your thinking on whether people should go down that path of having their own website and whether it's just a blog or just more of a brochure or, you know, speaking feature piece or something like that?

Rusty Shelton: 40:04

I I wholeheartedly recommend that CEOs, leaders, practitioners who are going down this road of building authority, it absolutely makes sense to have a home based website for themselves personally. And here's why. If I, you know, Trevor, have just heard you give an interview on a podcast. You made me laugh. You challenged me.

Rusty Shelton: 40:27

I wanna learn more. If I Google your name and the only place I get to is a bio page on a corporate website, again, my my guard is up when I get to that site. You're gonna have a tougher time extending your interaction with me within a corporate website versus I land on Trevor Young dot me. And and I could say, okay. Wow.

Rusty Shelton: 40:47

You know, somebody who is speaking right to me, he's positioned somebody with something to teach, he's authentic. Well, your opportunity to extend your interaction with me is much greater there. And so, again, back to kind of the highway analogy that I like to use is just your company, your institution, your nonprofit is a highway. We want as many of the right clients, team members, etcetera, on it. That personal brand website is an on ramp.

Rusty Shelton: 41:15

That LinkedIn profile is an on ramp. And by the way, for a lot of leaders listening to this, your biggest untapped marketing resource at your company, I promise you, is not the corporate logo. It is the thought leadership of individual subject matter experts within your company. And and the most exciting thing for me, Trevor, over the last decade of doing this is I I the the light bulb is finally going off at bigger institutions, at bigger brands, at hospital systems, at educational institutions that they've kinda kept all these subject matter experts sort of behind the corporate logo for years years. And what they're recognizing again, small, medium sized businesses, when you do this, you give yourself a chance to really punch above your weight class with what you're doing.

TREVOR YOUNG: 42:13

Yeah. I I I love that. No. I I really like the the on ramp as well. I think that that makes a lot of sense.

TREVOR YOUNG: 42:19

It's kinda like the entree in and, you know, taking people it allows you to take humanize the company. You you know, as the leader of a business, you are in a good position to humanize that business. And people do business with people, not logos. So so you you talk about step 1 is sort of, like, defining that brand then building that brand then showcasing that brand. What's you know, like, I I agree with you know, you've got to be found and and and that side of things.

TREVOR YOUNG: 42:47

This is a little a long haul, though. It's not we're not talking a campaign. Like, building your brand is is an always on thing, isn't it? And it it will evolve.

Rusty Shelton: 42:58

It will evolve. Absolutely over time, it will evolve. And, what what I find is the more common mistake, Trevor, is is I find a lot of leaders jump right to the fun stuff. Right? They jump right to the LinkedIn newsletter, starting that podcast, doing more PR, and and they don't have a name that they can own search for, and they don't have an image that they're creating that actually accelerates trust with somebody and converts them.

Rusty Shelton: 43:25

And so one of the biggest mistakes that I see is leaders are are kinda going through the motions of doing some social media, doing, you know, the podcast stuff, but they're not actually set up to convert the impressions that they're generating because they don't have the right brand in place, because they're not clear on who they are, and and they're not clear on the value that they're providing. So step 1 is always defining the brand and then showcasing that brand effectively with that authority by association. Now we get to the fun stuff in terms of going out and and reaching that audience, teaching, creating content. And we talk a little bit in the book about, you know, how we recommend that leaders organize their content strategy. One of the most common mistakes I see for leaders is, you know, the analogy that we like to use is your content strategy is your personal newspaper.

Rusty Shelton: 44:18

And for most well meaning leaders that are going down this road, the tendency is to fill the newspaper with op eds or opinion pieces, many as, you know, it's the Rusty Shelton show again and again and again. We have 2 problems with that. Number 1, you're gonna get pretty bored if all you're serving up is your own stuff. Number 2, if you're a leader that's starting off with a smaller audience, you got friends and family and and some work contacts, there's not enough people yet that know to pay attention to just your stuff. And so it becomes a slow grind.

Rusty Shelton: 44:49

So we talk about you driven content, relationship driven content, and news driven content is kind of the 3 categories that we like to see, content organized into. But, really, it's this idea, Trevor, of thinking more like the media than a marketer with what you're doing.

TREVOR YOUNG: 45:07

I like that. Let's let's, do a thumbnail sketch on each one of those. So you driven content is is is that that your opinion piece type thing. Is that is that what that is?

Rusty Shelton: 45:17

It is. So so that's all the content they can expect to your intellectual property. So so it's your perspective, your teaching. It's a lot of the evergreen content, 5 ways to be a better leader, 4 ways to prepare for retirement, that kind of stuff. That category, Trevor, also includes, your personal journey as a leader.

Rusty Shelton: 45:34

So in other words, lessons learned along the way. You your your challenges that you battle through, the more self deprecating, the more vulnerable that a leader is willing to be, the quicker that content's gonna grow, right, and the further it's gonna reach. That first category also includes anything that benefits you. So so promotional stuff, stuff that talks about your book, etcetera. And in my experience, Trevor, you know, that first category is like 95% of what most people are doing.

TREVOR YOUNG: 46:02

Yep.

Rusty Shelton: 46:02

And and it works great when people know to pay attention to it. If you don't have an audience yet, it is a slow grind. And those are the people usually that come up to me and say, I tried to blog. It didn't get me anywhere. I tried LinkedIn, didn't get me anywhere.

Rusty Shelton: 46:16

And the reason why is because you're speaking on a stage in an empty auditorium to people that don't yet know to pay attention. And so I like for that to be 1 third of the content strategy.

TREVOR YOUNG: 46:28

Yep.

Rusty Shelton: 46:29

Category 2, news driven content. So that's one of 2 subcategories. Either it's calendar driven, meaning, you know, based on the time of year, we kinda know what's front of mind for people in your audience, or back to David Meerman Scott, news jacking. So really looking at what's your audience paying attention to. I don't need you reporting the news.

Rusty Shelton: 46:48

There's lots of people doing that. I need you Prominentry. Yeah. And that exactly. And you wanna be careful with what you weighed into on the news jacking side in terms of the appropriateness of the content, the lightning rod nature or not of the content.

Rusty Shelton: 47:04

But what I find for leaders, if they're willing to be really topical with their content, they can go a long way really quickly.

TREVOR YOUNG: 47:12

And then that's a relevance thing. You know? It's hot now. The angle's there. People are talking about it.

TREVOR YOUNG: 47:17

Do you wanna be part of that conversation? And how do you insert yourself in that conversation? But if you're not strategically aligned with it, it doesn't make any sense. So this is where the strategy comes in as you're talking about because, you need to know those I call them the spheres of conversation. What are those areas that you want to, you know, the conversations you wanna publicly be part of, and be out there commenting on.

TREVOR YOUNG: 47:39

So I like that news driven content and then relationship driven content.

Rusty Shelton: 47:44

Yeah. Relationship driven content, I find, is the single most effective way for leaders to connect time that they spend on content marketing with direct ROI for the business. So my favorite way to use content marketing is to use it as an excuse to reach out to somebody that we want the leader to build a relationship with, or as an excuse to involve somebody that that leader thinks has a story that needs to be told. So an example of this, one of our biggest clients is one of the fastest growing regional banks here in Texas. You walk into the downtown lobby of this bank, brand new.

Rusty Shelton: 48:21

It's all the stuff you'd expect from a modern bank branch. Right? The the thing that's kinda out of place, you turn to the right, there's a podcast studio in the bank branch. K? And and what happens with that podcast, the bank president hosts it, and it's used by the bank as a way to curate content from investors, from key relationships in town, but also as a bridge to build relationships with people that they wanna get to know.

Rusty Shelton: 48:50

And by the way, Trevor, the interview is not, hey, Rusty. Tell me why, you know, our bank is the is the best bank ever. It's not a testimonial. It's all about the person that's being interviewed. But if I'm an investor and I get interviewed on that podcast or I'm a customer and I get interviewed on that podcast, when I share that on LinkedIn, I'm waxing on about that bank and that president.

Rusty Shelton: 49:11

So when you do relationship content the right way, you are empowering people to refer you in a way that they're winning as they do it. And so whether it's a podcast, whether it's involved you know, one of my favorite things to think about as you write a book is, alright, who are the 25 people that over the course of the next 5 years are gonna be the most important people for the growth of your business or the impact Who should we feature, baby, in the Forbes blog that that we're working on? So in other words, never do it in a way that's disingenuous. Never feature somebody just to get business. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 49:56

You need to feature people that bring value. But assuming it's somebody that's gonna bring value, be really strategic about using your content as an excuse to reach out to somebody and either nurture an existing relationship or build a new one.

TREVOR YOUNG: 50:12

Yeah. I love it. I love that's a what a great idea. You have a podcast studio in the bank. I love it.

TREVOR YOUNG: 50:17

I love it. And it's just it the message it sends. You know? The message

Rusty Shelton: 50:21

it sends.

TREVOR YOUNG: 50:22

And as you said, you're you're walking in, looks like a bank. Woah. What's that? It's, you know, again, a cognitive shortcut. I didn't think I'd wake up today and be talking cognitive shortcuts, but here there we are.

TREVOR YOUNG: 50:34

There we are. And I'm conscious of time, so thanks very much, Rusty. This I I love this topic. Well, I'm pretty sure we could we could banter on all afternoon your afternoon, my morning. But, one thing that was in the book that I really loved and and you've given us some, you know, some great analogies.

TREVOR YOUNG: 50:51

The one the big one I'm taking away is the on ramp and the and and the highway. But, you look at audience because we're talking content and and, you know, as a thought leader and a a leader, you wanna be building an audience. And you you've got the stadium, analogy about your audience and and breaking it down and people who are customers and people who are not there yet. Walk us through that, will you? And you there will be a term in there that's probably, people in, in America will understand, and I'll try and decode it.

TREVOR YOUNG: 51:24

So, walk us through that one.

Rusty Shelton: 51:27

Well, we we've been told by our international rights agent that that's probably gonna get changed in in whatever markets that may go into.

TREVOR YOUNG: 51:34

Oh, okay.

Rusty Shelton: 51:34

This is the this is the college football, you know, fan in us as as the Yep. So, everybody listening to this has 3 audiences in place. K. So if you'd imagine a stadium, whether it's a soccer stadium or a football stadium, whatever it might be, Inside that stadium, we we think of as season ticket holders. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 51:54

They they are people who have already converted to whatever it is you're trying to drive. That might be they bought your service or they've taken a job if that's the conversion you're trying to drive. In other words, they've they've converted to to what and everybody's got a certain number of people in their stadium. The second group is what we call tailgaters. And if you think about, tailgaters for those people that aren't familiar with that term, these are people that that are right outside the stadium, and they're part of the conversation.

Rusty Shelton: 52:22

Right? You you you're engaged with them, but they've not yet decided to buy a ticket and come inside. Alright? So so in other words, you've got a chance to nurture that relationship with them and build rapport as you work them to the point that they're ready to raise that hand. And and and, practically, what that means is that's somebody that, you know, maybe their budget hasn't come in for 2024 yet.

Rusty Shelton: 52:46

Maybe that's somebody that is trying to figure out who's the right orthodontist in Sydney to go to, and they're looking at 4 different ones. And they're sizing it up, and they've got 2 years to size it up before they make that decision. Whatever reason, they haven't converted, but you got a chance to do that over time. Future fans are people that, as we sit here today, have no idea who you are, but they're squarely in your target market. Right?

Rusty Shelton: 53:09

They could benefit tremendously from your service product, etcetera. What we find from most people that are doing any kind of marketing is they spend a fortune in advertising, marketing, etcetera, to get to future fans. People who are squarely in your target market never heard of you before. And in almost every case, Trevor, they're trying to take somebody from, I've never heard of you before, and drive them immediately into the stadium, which is a a really difficult thing to do. I mean, you gotta get really lucky to convert somebody immediately when they have never heard of you before.

Rusty Shelton: 53:46

And so what Adam and I advocate in the book is the focus when you reach somebody who's never heard of you before is not trying to immediately sell them something. It is how do you extend your interaction with them? In other words, how do you give them a reason to get on that email list, to subscribe to that LinkedIn newsletter. And and this gets into lead magnets, and we won't go into the weeds of that. But Yeah.

Rusty Shelton: 54:10

Really, what you're trying to do is just give somebody a way to dip their toe in the water with your message, be it a quiz or a white paper or a webinar, etcetera, and get them into that tailgate, get them part of that group where you can extend your interaction and nurture them to the point that they're ready to rock.

TREVOR YOUNG: 54:26

So walk us through the tailgate as it what what is the tailgate in a sporting parlance because we don't have that here in Australia. Is that people park the wall. I know. They park the park their, the utes out the front of the stadium, and they don't go in. Is that the thing?

TREVOR YOUNG: 54:42

They party outside?

Rusty Shelton: 54:44

Well, so I'll give an example from Austin, Texas. So the University of Texas, the Longhorns, is our hometown college football team. Yep. So if Texas is playing a game at 7 o'clock, that's when the actual game starts in the stadium. Yep.

Rusty Shelton: 54:57

People are arriving outside the stadium at 8 or 9 AM to start smoking a brisket or start cooking out. And and what happens at a tailgate is it's it's it's like a party outside the stadium. And it's called the tailgate because, you know, back in the day, people would drop the tailgate down. You'd have a cooler of beer. You'd have food.

Rusty Shelton: 55:20

And it it's it's for a lot of people, that's all they do, and then they'll go home and watch the game. But for all the people that have tickets, they'll come tailgate, and then they'll go inside the stadium when it happens. But it's a whole culture here in America in particular around college sports, although it also happens for professional sports. But it's a really fantastic way to spend some time with friends, you know, kind of before you walk in and start cheering for your team.

TREVOR YOUNG: 55:44

Yeah. Nice. There you go. Just decode that for people. Awesome.

TREVOR YOUNG: 55:49

Thank you very much for your time today and, sharing your ideas and stories.

Rusty Shelton: 55:54

Trevor, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.