023 Social media for sceptics and people who hate it - with Rita Zonius
Welcome back to the become your own PR machine podcast. My name is Trevor Young. Now there is so much negative chat these days around social media, and it can be very off putting for some people, professionals and business owners and leaders of all kinds. And so much so sometimes that they're staying away from it. And the problem then, of course, is that if they're missing out on all the positive benefits and opportunities that come with having an active presence on social media, and not just for them personally, but also professionally, but also for the business and the organization they represent.
TREVOR YOUNG:So what's the answer? Well, to help us unpack this vexed question, I have with me today an expert who deals with this type of issue all the time. Her name is Rita Zonius, and she's known as the enterprise social engineer. And she's a social media advisor and digital workplace practitioner who offers valuable insights on networking, communication, and social media use in professional settings. Welcome to the show, Rita.
RITA ZONIUS:Hi, Trevor. It's nice to see you again. It's been ages.
TREVOR YOUNG:It has. It has. Now I will say I I'm gonna get into your story a little bit in a tick and then I was just reminded just as we were chatting earlier about a, I'm not gonna say it wasn't an infamous. It was a social media post that years later, and you can correct me how many years, I still remember. But we'll get into that.
TREVOR YOUNG:Don't let me forget that one. But just for context, just so listeners get a bit of a feel for who you are and what do you do, then who are you and what do you do?
RITA ZONIUS:Well, I'm a I'm a career communicator. I've always wanted to work in comms. I've I've been involved for many decades now. I won't say how many. But, I started my career in in PR agencies, went into corporate affairs, and and loved that.
RITA ZONIUS:And then when I discovered the power of social and saw that, you know, organizations and people could use some help with it when I say social technologies too, I mean internal social as well. So Yep. You know very well I love enterprise social networks. Of course, COVID's put the spotlight on those. So I've asked on myself helping organizations with their enterprise social challenges.
RITA ZONIUS:And then also, I I fell into helping leaders build their impact and their influence using social media tools. So I've been doing that, globally. I have personally coached more than a 1000 people all over the world in how to build a purposeful digital footprint. It's good fun.
TREVOR YOUNG:Yes. And you're, you're active too. You're a fit person. You're a, what's what's the the side hustle, the gym hustle you got going?
RITA ZONIUS:The side hustle is I'm a I'm a body pump instructor. So, yes, a few times a week, I will be putting people through their paces. So I'm I'm a coach in more ways than 1 in the gym, coaching people in social media, and I'm also a trained executive coach as well. So I guess I love coaching.
TREVOR YOUNG:I think so. I think so. And you better continue loving it because there's a number of strands of business right there right there for you. Now, thank you for that. Now as I promised, the big you know, this this social media post that I remember, and I will let you I'll I'll explain it and you can tell me how many years ago this was because if you can remember someone's social media post after this amount of time and you're gonna tell me the amount of time, it it's gotta be a good one.
TREVOR YOUNG:And I remember it went really, really well for you. I think it was on LinkedIn, but you may have put it on Twitter because I know you're very active on both. But you worked at a, at, at one of Australia's largest banks, the ANZ Bank, and you were leaving there after x amount of years service and you got someone to take a photo of you walking out the doors of headquarters and entering your new chapter. That was just shows the power of a photo because that went off.
RITA ZONIUS:It did. And that was 7 years ago. 7 years ago? Maybe 8. Let's say 7.
TREVOR YOUNG:How good is my memory? Seriously. But that's, you know,
RITA ZONIUS:that's wasn't it, stepping into the light?
TREVOR YOUNG:It was. It was a good photo. And I don't know how many times you took the photo, but someone was taking it for you because you're pictured from a distance coming out of the corporate headquarters of a major bank. And when we say a picture tells a 1,000 words, it really does. And with that and you know, a paragraph or so as a caption on social media, and it said everything.
TREVOR YOUNG:And and I remember you got lots of comments, lots of likes on that, and it's just and I you know, it just always brings home to me that the value of taking a a photo in situ and telling a little story around it and how we can do that. And and is that something you like about social media, the fact that we can get our message and our story out there in, you know, in micro ways and, and it's a skill to be learned. But is that something you like about social media?
RITA ZONIUS:Honestly, when I first started my career as a communicator, I I saw myself as being behind the curtain and helping leaders with, hear your notes for this media interview. Here here's a speech for you. Comms people back in the day saw themselves very much being behind the curtain.
TREVOR YOUNG:Yep.
RITA ZONIUS:But then we got to a point where organizations realized it's crazy to not allow staff to use social media inside their organizations. We need to equip our people and and help them because it it does come with a lot of healthy fear around it. People see social media, not going so well for some people, and so then they become fearful, and they they get concerned. They'll say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing. But you're absolutely right.
RITA ZONIUS:With some time and focus on it and figuring out a strategy for yourself, you can absolutely make it work for you. It needn't be a scary thing. It can be a lot of fun as well. So I I say, if you're hesitant, then, you know, maybe start to think about it in a different way because it is about helping other people, adding value to others. I think a problem comes from people carrying these old old rules and old ways that we used to kind of live our lives.
RITA ZONIUS:You know when you went to school, or, like, no, I did. When I went to school, you were told be quiet when, you know, the teacher asked you a question, put up then or put up your hand and speak when you're spoken to. All these things are, you know, have been, well and truly gone, and the world is a very different place now. So I I feel like people have carried this slightly old fashioned view from way back in the day that it's impolite to talk about yourself. You know, it's impolite to shine a light on yourself.
RITA ZONIUS:But, actually, if you flip it and when you share what you know and you do it in the service of others, that's where that's where it can make a difference. So then it's not about you. When I when I talk about it this way with senior people, you can see the anxiety kind of lift up, you know, come out of their shoulders. Like, oh, okay. No one will think I'm, you know, be noting myself here.
RITA ZONIUS:So Yeah. Yeah.
TREVOR YOUNG:It it I'm
RITA ZONIUS:trying to point.
TREVOR YOUNG:And when it is about the audience. And that's about content and social and PR and all of it. It's about the audience. And I think I guess an overhang and particularly you coming from the corporate, you'll see this more. There is that overhang of you know, it's about us all the time and it's not and it's about risk averse you know, risk aversion and all of those things.
TREVOR YOUNG:And we'll we'll dig into a lot of those because there's so many blockers and roadblocks for for, you know, genuinely good people who are professionals and experienced and credible in a world where there's so many people who aren't credible and and they're the ones that are putting themselves out there more than anyone, you know, that it's That we want them out there and hear from them. But again, it's their voice but they don't have to be chest beating all the time. And the other thing I I I think it'd be good just to hear from you because I guess, you know, you were you've worked in enterprise, but obviously with people who are professionals and professional settings and worked at McKinsey's and Banks and other publicly listed companies and and also now you're coaching individuals. It's is there are there some where at, you know, we're in mid 2024. Where what are people thinking, these people that you're dealing with thinking about social media at the moment, and how have they changed their view on it, if at all?
RITA ZONIUS:Well, it's interesting that you asked me that question because I'll never forget my my very good friend, Dion Hinchcliffe, digital workplace futurist over in Washington DC, said to me one day, Rita, you know, no matter how far we think we've come in the digital age, there's always someone cave painting. And so what I find is that I listen to myself sometimes, and I think this sounds really simple, and I say it over and over again, but there genuinely are people on a journey at at different stages. So some people haven't ever touched social media. There are some who are dipping their toe in, and then there are others who are, you know, often running with it and doing amazing things. So there isn't one approach to help all those people, but what what is common about all of those people is that they all started from a place of of fear, the fear of making themselves vulnerable, worrying about whether anyone will care about what they have to say.
RITA ZONIUS:And these are incredibly accomplished senior people, People have written books even who would say to me, well, I'm not really sure what to say. And so the journey does really begin with thinking about what do I what do I stand for? What do I wanna be known for? And then choosing a couple of content pillars and focusing on those. So we can't talk about 50 things, but it's important to figure out what the 2 or 3 things are that matter to you that you're going to focus on.
RITA ZONIUS:You can't you can't be all things to all people. You have to figure out the the space you want to be in and be very disciplined and focused in sharing, you know, inside opinion, advice, you know, around those topic areas and staying away from, you know, the cool trendy things. Just because other people are talking about them doesn't mean that you should. So that's how I that's how I think people can make this journey successful is keep it keep it tight, Keep a small stick to your knitting on a couple of subjects.
TREVOR YOUNG:And then as you get used to it, then you can expand a little more and, you know, if they're I look at people who are experts and thought leaders and some people cross boundaries, but experts kind of stick to their knitting in a few lanes and go deep, deep down. And thought leaders want to explore different areas and join dots and change the way people think about a topic or an issue. And I would think that people tend to be one way or the other. I've seen people who just love sticking to their industry or what it is that they want to focus on and be known for that. And then there's others that will, you know, get involved in all sorts of discussions and sometimes to maybe their detriment and maybe not, but it makes them different and stand out.
TREVOR YOUNG:And as we know, you know, you've got to have an opinion and a perspective to kind of stand out from the noise today. But when when we're talking social media, we're probably veering a little bit more LinkedIn. Where do you see mister Twitter, Twitter, mister x these days? I can't I seriously can't
RITA ZONIUS:I personally, I'm you know, that was my first true love, Twitter. And it's just look, honestly, it's not the same for me anymore, and I I I look at it, you know, look at it sadly. I I I prefer to focus on LinkedIn these days. You know, having said that, if there's something I think is worthwhile, then I will go and share it. I I like I still like the platform x to go and have a look at at news and things.
RITA ZONIUS:Often, things break there really quickly. But, yeah, I don't have the same love for it. LinkedIn is I think it's probably by now probably got a 1000000000 people on it or is close to or just over that. It's the world's largest professional network. It's it's it's table stakes.
RITA ZONIUS:You know, you have to you have to be there, you know, whether you like it or not. When I'm when I'm googling you and I'm looking you up, your LinkedIn profile is probably gonna be the first thing that comes up. And if it's looking a little bit like a barren desert, that that's not great. If I can't find you at all, that's that's probably
TREVOR YOUNG:It's even worse. And if you haven't got your photo and it's just that silhouette of a of a figure instead of, the real you, then you're in trouble. The I guess and this really, it doesn't matter whether you're running a business, a growing business, or you're a solopreneur and an expert in your space, or you're leading a major company. All none of the well, everything we're talking about is is relevant for all of them. I guess when you're running a bigger company, you've got, you know, maybe there's you might be become a bit more risk averse potentially.
TREVOR YOUNG:And if it's a public company, of course, then as we know, just mentioning the owner of X, Elon Musk, he's had his own issues with, he runs a public company, several public companies really, doesn't he? And just getting out and tweeting and making some noise and by doing that he ended up with Twitter.
RITA ZONIUS:So Okay. For what
TREVOR YOUNG:you wish for. But, in terms of I think Twitter may be turning the corner maybe a little bit. I've noticed that it's settled down a lot. And I think maybe there's some room. I think it might be making a bit of a comeback.
TREVOR YOUNG:That's just me personally. But, I mean, still got algorithmic changes and things to deal with as we do with LinkedIn. LinkedIn is really affecting that side of things on the algorithm. But I guess with Twitter though, all the influencers are there. The media is there.
TREVOR YOUNG:The stories are breaking. The it's the influence. It still is the influence channel. Do you recommend that some of your clients in that consider it, or do they want to shy away from it? What's their view of it?
RITA ZONIUS:I honestly haven't had a conversation about Twitter for a long time with with anybody. I think a lot of people are are parking it and just watching to see what happens. I hope you're right, and I hope it is turning a corner because it, you know, it was a it was a wonderful, wonderful place once upon a time. I I hope it can regain, regain some more credibility. I'd I'd like to go back there.
RITA ZONIUS:But for now, I think most people are focused on LinkedIn, the people that I talk to.
TREVOR YOUNG:Yep. Yep. Yep. And and I guess the other part is with Twitter, you've got to be active. Otherwise, it's not gonna work for you.
TREVOR YOUNG:You can't just post and Well, can't post and go. I mean, you shouldn't do that on LinkedIn, but particularly on Twitter, you don't want to do that. And it's more that's when you can reach out to people. I mean, from a media perspective, if the media are on it, you can reach out to them. I mean, and the media today is not just journalists.
TREVOR YOUNG:And if it's a public company, then you've got the analysts on there as well. So it's I guess it's what are your goals, etcetera. But let's let's skew it more with LinkedIn. I mean, LinkedIn is, you know, we've seen some pretty amazing the personal brand, like all the big companies that you deal with and the people who they work for or run, I mean, at the end of the day, they would have probably solid LinkedIn pages. But as we see time and time and time again, and Elon Musk and, Richard Branson, and there are many others, the personal brand is a heck of a lot bigger than the company brand.
TREVOR YOUNG:Heck of a lot bigger.
RITA ZONIUS:Yeah. A 100%. And I think look. I should say too at the outset, being a a, coming from a a corporate affairs world, all social media engagement too let's understand. It's not a silver bullet.
RITA ZONIUS:It's not gonna do everything for you even though I love it and I'm heavily involved in it. Social media engagement is still one one part of an organization's overall communication strategy. So, yes, you want senior leaders to be visible there because you have strategic reasons for them to do so, and so then it follows why certain people want help because they are part of that plan. Also, it means choosing your platforms carefully. Just because we have lots of platforms doesn't mean you have to be on all of them.
RITA ZONIUS:It it is about very much starting with strategy and figuring out how social media fits into that strategy, and then and then you take it from there.
TREVOR YOUNG:So I wanna get into the strategic part of that in a tick. But before we go down that path, you've probably met so many skeptics and so many people, you know, their view of social media is 10 years, 15 years out of date. How do you what's what's your comeback to people who do who are dismissive, who don't like it, who are skeptical of it? And really, often that is shorthand for I'm scared of it, let's be fair, but I'll never say that. What what's how do you approach people like that who you know that they're going to benefit if they get up on it?
RITA ZONIUS:And you're you've that's right. No. But as I said, I've coached many people all over the world. It doesn't matter which country they're from or what language they speak. People have the same, concerns about social media because they see it when it doesn't go so well.
RITA ZONIUS:They will typically say things like, I don't have time to do to do this. Yeah. They really say I'm I'm I'm frightened of it. They wouldn't say that, but I do think it's a genuine concern is that they won't they they don't know really how to do it well. But, you know, what I they say and I didn't you know, I never needed it 10 years before then, so I was successful without it.
RITA ZONIUS:So why the hell do I need it now? But the world is a very different place now because back in the day when I started as a corporate communications operative, I was faxing media releases to journalists. I was the gatekeeper between a leader and an article in the newspaper. The journalists had to come to me to to, you know, ask to interview somebody. But now these barriers between internal and external communication have all gone.
RITA ZONIUS:So, you know, I help people understand that the the world is a very different place now. Whether you like it or not, we live in a connected world. And whether you like it or not, people are looking you up, and they are forming a perception about you based on what they find. So, hence, we circle back around. If I Google you or and I can't find anything about you, that also says something to me about you, and and it's not great.
RITA ZONIUS:It's not a good story. So I I joke sometimes and say, well, if I can't find anything about you, you know, you might be a you might you might be an axe murderer. You know, I don't know. So it's better for us. So you can't control my perception of you, but what you can control is how you show up.
TREVOR YOUNG:Yes.
RITA ZONIUS:And it starts with having a considered digital footprint. Who are you? What do you stand for? What do you what can you talk about underwater? You know, what do you love what do you love to engage in?
RITA ZONIUS:And by helping people to identify those things, I say to them, well, you love those things, and you you've had a long career, and then you know all of this stuff, but if you just hold it hold it inside, it's not helping anybody. So particularly when there are senior leaders, if I I talk about it in a way that helps them understand they're mostly leaving a legacy or leaving some some goodness in the world. So giving people advice or sharing insights and and views and opinions that help someone to take that information and run with it and do something good or helps them avoid a train crash. So when you flip the story and and say they say to me, well, I never needed it then. I really don't need it now.
RITA ZONIUS:So it's actually not about you and your career progression. It is about you, you know, in a in a backhanded way, it is about your your progression of positioning yourself. But when we give of ourselves selflessly and we share great stuff with people who know a lot less about that subject matter than we do, that's what helps build your credibility. That's what helps make you credible and and interesting and influential in the world. It's actually not about turning the cameras and the lights onto yourself.
RITA ZONIUS:We all know we've seen this, Trevor, haven't we, since COVID. It's just something off putting all these people in the world who think, you know, they're gonna become gurus in 5 minutes. You know? And, it just doesn't work. This this is a a long game as well.
RITA ZONIUS:So when I talk about it that way with leaders, they fast start to forget the fear and start to see the opportunity.
TREVOR YOUNG:Yeah. And and one big part of it too, particularly if you're in a bigger organization, but even in in a smaller business, you've you've got employees and suppliers and partners and stakeholders, and they want to see you out and about as well. I mean, it helps deepen connection with them. It helps build trust. And, hey, it's good for your personal brand for when you go to enough for another job, which you probably end up having to do at some point.
RITA ZONIUS:Well, this is the crazy thing about it, and I've really noticed is I've had a lot more people come and turn to me for help because of a lot of organizations transforming, you know, restructuring, people losing their roles. And I say to them, well, where's how many people do you know who do the same job as you, but who do not work in your company? And they, you know, most and I have to say to you, most of the time, the answer is, well, I live in my bubble, and I know a lot of people in the company that I work for. I haven't really had time to connect with others, but we all know in those moments, this is it's good insurance and it's sensible to build a wider network because you never know you never know when you might need it one day or when someone else in your network needs your help. It's, this is a yeah.
RITA ZONIUS:It's interesting to me that people don't think to broaden their networks, and I think it's useful. I also think when you're engaged, coming back to wider communication strategy, it's great for internal comms as well. So much internal communication is happens outside. So, you know, and what what happens outside comes into the organization. What happens inside, you know, gets leaked and goes outside super fast as well.
RITA ZONIUS:So, you know, this all comes down to the barriers between internal and external comms coming down in the digital world. And whether you like it or not, as a leader, you have to come to grips with being engaged in that digital world in a little you know, in a in some way. It might be a little. It might be a lot. Depends on how much time you have, but you just cannot afford to to be there.
RITA ZONIUS:When I look you up, I wanna find something meaningful about you. I don't wanna find crickets.
TREVOR YOUNG:Yeah. And and the other the other part of it is, you know, people don't like faceless organizations. The Edelman Trust Barometer tells us time and time again that CEOs aren't trusted. And trust is just in short supply and getting shorter all the time. And you know, this is where the opportunity is to be that take that chance, be out front, and take people behind the velvet rope of the the organization, behind the public face.
TREVOR YOUNG:Because the bigger the company, the more layers there are to it. And, you know, the the people who who who who make the difference and who have got a voice, they're hiding away in the shadows of the boardroom. And what's the point? What is the point?
RITA ZONIUS:Yeah. And look, we all love we all love stories. Right? We've loved them since we were little kids. Everyone loves a story.
RITA ZONIUS:We're all kind of born voyeurs in that way. We love to get behind the scenes and understand what's going on. Yeah. And the more an organization can show a human face, the the the better off they are. Yeah.
RITA ZONIUS:Sure. You have your your publicly listed company. You have the the regular calendar of of of dates and events that you have to meet in your financial calendar, but there's so much fun stuff that can happen as well with this that helps anyone connected to you, your partners, your customers, suppliers, etcetera, better understand, you know, who you are as an organization. And it's really good fun too, isn't it, Trevor? It's fun.
TREVOR YOUNG:Oh, absolutely. It is. And I think, you know, if you're a a leader in a business or a business owner and and you're it's not just about putting I mean, I I guess a lot of them, they might think it's the content first, and that's why you've got the pillars and everything. What do you how do you find that people or leaders and, you know, senior professionals when it comes to having to talk back to people on social media?
RITA ZONIUS:Comment them. Yes. I see. I see.
TREVOR YOUNG:So there's 2 parts. 1 is the comments responding to comments on your posts. So you've got them enthused and they're creating content. What am I gonna say to this person who's just spoken to me online? And and then the other part of it is, which I'm not sure many of them would do, maybe they do, comment on other people's posts.
RITA ZONIUS:Now you raise a very, very good point because social media is called social for a reason.
TREVOR YOUNG:Otherwise, it's just media.
RITA ZONIUS:That's right. It's not a one way street. Imagine if we were at dinner together, Trevor, and I didn't know you, and I sat down next to you, and I proceeded to talk at you for an hour a solid hour, blah blah blah blah blah in your ear, and I don't let you get a word in. And then as soon as I finished talking, I get up and I leave. What would you think of me?
TREVOR YOUNG:Yeah. Yeah.
RITA ZONIUS:So this is what I say to people then, don't you don't do it in real life. Don't do it in social media. This idea that you can come and say, ta da, here's my story. Let me push it out. Now talk to the hand.
RITA ZONIUS:That that does not work. When you engage in social, that is part of the deal you make with yourself. The commitment that you make is that you will engage with with people's information, that you will engage with their posts, show others love. If you want love in return, then, you know, you have to it works it works in a multidirectional way. You cannot just push things out and expect people to to engage with it, and then you give them nothing you give them nothing in return.
RITA ZONIUS:It doesn't it doesn't work.
TREVOR YOUNG:And I remember the the old and it's the one you're gonna hear for everyone, I haven't got time. And again, it's not that you haven't got time. It's just that it's not a priority for you. But I always, many years ago, 10 years ago probably, I always used to point people to, well, Gary Vaynerchuk's a lot busier than you will ever be. Seriously, runs multimillion dollar companies, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, million dollar companies, and he's talking and he's doing everything.
TREVOR YOUNG:And yet he still manages to tweet, you know, 50 times a day. You know, now he does all his own tweeting, etcetera, today. He's content wise. He's got a team of about 20 behind him. So I don't expect that, you know, I've I've I'm very aware of that.
TREVOR YOUNG:But in the early days when he was full on and commenting and doing, you know, like, he he didn't have time, but he found time because it was important to him and it's turned him into a global name and a best selling author and one of the top speakers in in in America. So you know, it there's there's not enough time. You gotta make the time, and it's gotta become part of your your brand, your habit, your day to day.
RITA ZONIUS:Yeah. And I liken it to so being a a gym instructor and teaching body pump to build muscles in the gym, you know, you need to show up regularly and and and and flex them and work them. And you're not gonna change the shape of your body in a week, but showing up consistently, and putting in the time and the effort will will show you results. And, you know, I often tell this nice story actually around learning to build your social media muscles is like going to the gym and and and building muscle there. It it does.
RITA ZONIUS:It takes it takes the time, and you're right. You have to make the commitment. Otherwise, the the dead certainty is if you don't do anything, then nothing will happen and nothing will change. So that's the that's the flip side of the the conversation.
TREVOR YOUNG:The body of work. So let's go back to the the type of content, and and and, again, we're looking probably LinkedIn in as a preferable channel. But there's so many different ways of using LinkedIn today. I mean, I've always suggested for people that a good way to start is just sharing other people's stuff. I mean, we know that if you put a link in LinkedIn today, it goes nowhere, but they're kind of penalized for sending people off, but that's not a reason not to do it.
TREVOR YOUNG:And, you know, sharing the company pages posts first and then just starting to curate and share some stuff that's of interest, and having a point of view on top of that. Is that is that a good starting point for people?
RITA ZONIUS:Yeah. A 100%. That is the the easiest way to start. And again, if you've identified here the 2 or 3 topics that I care about, I've come across this interesting article in the paper. I think, you know, this is what I think about that.
RITA ZONIUS:So, yeah, absolutely. It's a crying shame to me. I see people sharing really interesting stuff, and then they don't repost or or share with, with a comment. You know? It's just sort of nothing there.
RITA ZONIUS:It is good to share with opinion, insight, or perspective. I mean, LinkedIn loves it when you do those things. So it it does, it does it does, like, I give you points for doing that, I suppose. But it also let lets me figure out what would it be like to work with Trevor if I look at the tone of his posts and his opinions and his thoughts about things. Could I see myself working with him?
RITA ZONIUS:You know, does he care about the same things that I care about? How does he see the world? So some people can be super active, but if they're just sharing without adding an insight or some giving some advice on top of that, then it's a lost opportunity. But that that is this the, that's the best best place to start as is engaging on other people's stuff as well. Going through your feed, you know, following certain tags of topics that you care about, commenting on people's things.
RITA ZONIUS:Also, it's a great way to build relationships as well. Little is gonna come from shooting out a 100 connection requests to people that you don't know and they don't know you. But if they're interesting to you and you engage on their content, I mean, that's how you and I have made a lot of connections, isn't it? We we we may we may have started not knowing people and they've become, you know, good friends in a lot of cases too after after a time, but it takes time. It doesn't happen in, it just does not happen in a week, no matter what people on Instagram, you know, say about that.
TREVOR YOUNG:And so then publishing some original posts on it, What how do you approach that? Again, the content pillars, I think, is a good idea. What are the areas that you want to I call it spheres of conversations, all the same sort of stuff is to have an have some, I guess, some boundaries of these are the topics that I want to talk about, and and that's where you keep your radar on those and then you just write some The great thing with people who have been around the block a number of times and know who are credible, They've got stories to tell, they've got knowledge, they know this stuff and they don't have to be the smartest person in the room. In fact, it's best that they don't try and prove that they're the smartest person in the room. But also look at who's my audience and what can I you know, what value can I add today And will people like this story and will it be of interest to them?
TREVOR YOUNG:And it's not chest beating, as you say.
RITA ZONIUS:It's the curse of knowledge. Right? It's the curse of knowledge. So we think, oh, gee. I've said this a 1000 times.
RITA ZONIUS:Sure. This must be boring now for lots of people, but your boring is someone else's, you know, amazing insight, you know. Yes. So we can never we should always remind ourselves that sometimes even the simplest things that we know about our craft and the things that we do will be super interesting to someone else who knows a lot less about it, and and we can't discount that. I think, discount that.
RITA ZONIUS:I think, sometimes, we might get caught up a bit of, oh, we need to make it super sophisticated and, you know, to make it interesting. But the basic stuff, the things that you know to be true about your craft, if company a does b, the things that you know to be true about your craft, if company a does b, x and y will surely happen, and you know it in an instant because you've seen it for 20 years, 30 years. That that stuff is gold, and I think that's another reason, maybe, people hesitate to share is, I think, that that's just sound it seems really boring, and no one will care. But, yeah, I can assure you the the most simplest of ideas can get a lot of traction in social media if we feel brave enough to step out and and share those things.
TREVOR YOUNG:And what do you think what's your view around the v word, vulnerability? I mean, I know it's a buzzword now. Every, you know, let's face it, all any decent word has been buzzworded and bastardised in the corporate jargon. But, you know, vulnerability in its purest sense, you know, is is a powerful thing for leaders. And and obviously that extends to social media, but no doubt would scare people a little bit.
TREVOR YOUNG:It's one thing being vulnerable in the boardroom or wherever. It's another thing to be doing it publicly on social media. How are you seeing that? I mean, it's a lot more accepted today than it was 5, 6, 7 years ago.
RITA ZONIUS:Well, depends. Are we talking about, like, a Hollywood style of vulnerability with all the drama that comes with that? Or are we just talking about just being your genuine, honest self?
TREVOR YOUNG:Yeah. Well, I I guess that's that's the thing. The Hollywood thing really usually is about me, you know, the person, the celebrity. But yeah, I think when it comes to business leaders and that, to my mind, vulnerability really is just to not I admit I was wrong, but, you know, it might be just a lesson learned. When I first got this job, I, you know, I did this or, you know, just some little little insights.
TREVOR YOUNG:It's kind of someone once said it's called opening the kimono, and I either use opening the kimono or peeling the onion, whatever you want to say, but just peeling off a couple of layers. And I always remember from the early days of social media, there's there's professional, there's personal, and there's private. Now personal and professional are interrelated today. I mean, there's no gap between them. Business is personal.
TREVOR YOUNG:You decide private. This is what I've always recommended people. You work out what's private. I don't talk about religion. I don't talk about politics.
TREVOR YOUNG:I don't talk about, you know, family. But apart from that, I'm an open book sort of stuff. And and I I think sometimes people want those parameters.
RITA ZONIUS:Yeah. And it's sensible to sit down and think about where those boundaries are. Absolutely. In the same way, you're determining, here's the things I'm going to talk about. Also, figure out where you're not gonna go.
RITA ZONIUS:And don't allow yourself to be drawn into things that, you know, are not your space to play in. Over the last few years, I've seen you know, if I look all around the world, some communications folks are saying to the leaders, you need to be visible, and you need to have an opinion about this and this and this. But, actually, they do not have to have an opinion about every single thing going on. And if it's not strategically aligned to, you know, what they wanna talk about, then, you know, I personally, you know, would never push a leader to do something that they felt uncomfortable with. So I think that it may be vulnerabilities also linked to that as well.
RITA ZONIUS:If leaders feel like they're being pushed to go into some territory where they don't feel comfortable, then absolutely, that would make you feel vulnerable. So I say don't don't go there. Don't make this don't make this difficult. But, it's it's, you know, it can be a bit tough in a in a world with issues around, sort of societal polarization, etcetera, you know, around all kinds of things. People wanting there to be very strong opinions about certain issues and expect people to have a view on everything, but I I could hold a view to your point.
RITA ZONIUS:I love American politics. Like, I love it. I'm a US politics junkie, but I don't talk it's not my subject matter that I I talk about. That's just my that's just my week weekend entertainment. Right?
RITA ZONIUS:But, I choose not to share about it because I don't want to engage, and it's just something that I enjoy reading about and learning about. So vulnerability can come if you perhaps if you're pushed into places where you may not feel comfortable, and I say, yeah, don't don't go there if it makes you feel super uncomfortable.
TREVOR YOUNG:So again so, you know, the the content curation, sharing, sharing the company page, sharing articles from, you know, writers that then and, and media reports that you have an opinion on for whatever reason. It might be a soft opinion at the start, but as you get used to being out on social media, you'll probably start and a lot of leaders have got strong opinions and maybe they just need to sharpen that opinion over time. But then creating posts, small posts that you can always riff it into a phone and get it transcribed and someone can write it up for you if the time issue is something, I've got a way around every single bit about time, the challenge of time. But there's doing the posts, maybe the occasional photo now is the next layer in. Doing some videos would be another layer in, but pretty good for some of the some leaders and maybe not so good for others and business professionals.
TREVOR YOUNG:Some people prefer the camera and some people don't. And then on LinkedIn, you've got articles and newsletters.
RITA ZONIUS:Yeah. I, don't talk to me about the newsletters, though. I don't know. I think I've got I think I've got about invitations there for maybe a 100 to I haven't got time I haven't got time to write I haven't got time to write them all, but, look, I do like I like the, writing an article in LinkedIn. I think the tool the blogging tool in there is super easy to use.
RITA ZONIUS:And so, yeah, if you if you have so you know what? I've got a yeah. I've got this story. I've got about 800 words in me right now about this. Yeah.
RITA ZONIUS:Then I say go for it. You know, write it up and put it in, and we were talking before about LinkedIn wanting you to stay on the platform. And not that I'm into point scoring, and I don't want people to think about engaging in social media about being some game you play with the algorithm. That's not the right way that we need to park that, but LinkedIn does love it when you stay on the platform. So writing an article that sits on the platform is is a good way to keep people engaged and linked and LinkedIn keeping you in people's feeds.
TREVOR YOUNG:Yeah. Absolutely. So there's quite a bit there. Well, thanks for unpacking that, Rita. It's been terrific.
TREVOR YOUNG:And, I mean, it's really it's softly, softly, but you need a hand behind you to push you a little bit. If you need it, get it. Start small, build up. You'd be surprised that but make it a priority. Make it part of your kind of in quotes day.
TREVOR YOUNG:Get active because the more you do, the the better it will be. As you say, it's like a muscle. And, you know, you don't just have to write a post. You can do videos now. Like, if you're a leader and so many people aren't doing posts and so many people aren't doing videos, and if you do do it, you'll get noticed for all the right reasons.
TREVOR YOUNG:And maybe you need someone to interview you and you put those interviews up. You know, it's there's so many different ways to get that message, the story to become involved in the conversation, the public conversations that matter to you and your business and your personal brand. There's so much there to do just on one platform. That's without We haven't even talked about other social media and long form and podcasting and all that sort of stuff. That's another discussion for another day.
TREVOR YOUNG:But if you don't get this bit right, you won't get the rest right.
RITA ZONIUS:And when you do this, this is the thing, it's fun. So I that's a it's a really important message for people as well, is when you do engage and you add value to your network, the network grows. You meet people that you otherwise would never meet in your life, and amazing things can happen to you when that occurs. But that's how I ended up in McKinsey. You know, I wasn't looking for a job at McKinsey.
RITA ZONIUS:It kind of fell into my lap, and it really came about through my engagement in social media. So wonderful unexpected things can happen as well when you engage here in a purposeful way. It's productive and it's good fun. Have a crack, I say.
TREVOR YOUNG:Digital serendipity. 100%. Well, thank you, Rita. How can people find you? They can clearly connect with you on LinkedIn.
RITA ZONIUS:Of course. But, where
TREVOR YOUNG:where else online?
RITA ZONIUS:RitaZonius.com, and I which is also you have a click through from my LinkedIn page too. So, yeah, come on come and find me on LinkedIn or, reach out to me via my website.
TREVOR YOUNG:Terrific. Thank you very much again.
RITA ZONIUS:Pleasure.